Curse

I Will Heal You Ally · Feb 10, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

I agree... no wiki, everyone were "newbs" at the beginning of GW, people asked for anyone to join their party, now only the popular profs. I wish I was there from the beginning.

0mar · Feb 10, 2008, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Factions is an absolute pain to play through. The enemy density is ridiculous, there are literally hundreds of Am Fah or Jade Brotherhood just milling around. There's nothing exciting about killing the same group 15 different times on the same map. It they didn't kill you the first time, they sure as hell won't kill you the 15th time. The story was bad, the directing was laughable and the voice acting was atrocious. The story wasn't engaging, it wasn't interesting and the missions were mostly boring. 75% of the game was involved in boring, drab slum areas that had very little in terms of diversity, both enemy and architecture. The factions grind was the worst; there's no need to make the amount such a ludicrously high number (10,000!). It's a chore getting 10k faction for both sides on a new character. Factions turned me off to this game for almost a year. It was seriously that bad.

Nightfall, on the other hand, was a ton of fun. Enemy density was brought back to a managable level. There was very little grind; I had ~6800 sunspear points at the point where I needed 7500, but that was easily attained via quests and bounties. I didn't feel like I was grinding and my subsequent playthroughs, I never had a problem getting enough SS points. The story was interesting and was epic. I especially liked the Realm of Torment, the added environmental conditions were an added change. Finally, the quests were more involved, even if they were FedEx'ey in nature. Sure, a lot of quests involved bringing back some cloth or bones or missing shipments, you also had quests like destroying the Staff of Mists or holding the line against invading demons.

EtoN is a lot of fun too, but I haven't gotten very far into it. I really like the enemy skillbars and enemy group layouts. Fighting Charr is a lot of fun!

mazza558 · Feb 10, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Okay, I understand your point on the Wiki. Still, I think mystery is better than "OMG 100% MAP RIGHT HERE!!"... Glad that GW2 is changing this somewhat.

EPO Bot · Feb 10, 2008, 04:28 PM // 16:28

If WoW had no fee, i would have been playing that instead. So i DO like the way GW changed. Having just one PVE character to develop is exactly what i wanted. The original prophecies world was vast but mostly empty with no reason to return to it after running trough it to get to the missions.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 10, 2008, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Devs also listened to much for QQ of "hardcore" people who end up been-there-done-it-all regardless of how much grinding they add to game.

Basically, game philosophy changed from being as far from traditional MMORPG as possible to being as close to traditional MMORPG as possible.

So if you bought GWs at begining because you liked it as game (and not because it was free), you are guaranteed to feel that first was best.

Pretty much, it was a kinder, gentler, time, where farmers were few and far between and grind basically didn't exist - although it should be said that there were always hardcore people. There were people complaining about that there was "nothing to do" (they'd been in the beta, hardcore people always are), and complaining about the "insane grind" when I joined GWGuru back in 2005.

Ironically back then it was the PvP'ers who complained about ANets focus on PvE, and how they were forced to play PvE when all they wanted to do was play PvP.

Also ironic is that one of the most common complaints about the PvE was that it wasn't open enough, and that it felt claustrophobic and "corridor-like".

As for wiki... It does take all the exploration out of the game, but on the other hand it's such a valuable resource that on balance I think it's mostly good. I just have to make sure not to read about quests and missions before I do them.

MirkoTeran · Feb 10, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

back in the old days things were more interesting. Some newer people won't understand this.

QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

many mistakes:
- No going back to pre-Searing.
- Mission and Bonus can be made separately.
- Can skip missions.
- Everything's too late.
- Small parties.
- Almost no skins.
- Horrible rewards.
- No end-game map(Party at Droknar's Forge) with ending credits and fireworks, no end-game cinematic, nor end-game greens.

I feel the exact opposite of this. This are one of the best points of Prophecies over other chapters. Bonuses were actually interesting and quest rewards were awesome (skills, unique items,..). No crappy greens, but they messed that up later.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Feb 10, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

honestly i have to say Proph has been the most gipped of all the chapters it doesn't have its own elite area, and no sorrows furnace doesn't count its too easy, but all in all it was a more epic style of play. Sure you could get runs everywere but yet still you were doing to eventually get the whole plot by trying to cap certin elites which are only in certain areas in the game. But while the other campaignes brought some interesting things in GW mostly they just were bleh. There is no epic defend a fort fight like THK, even though it is easy as hell, also to the point of the endgame greens...they have all sucked.
Just look at shiros blades look cool but why is req not 9?
the forgotten stuff is ok at best
droks weapons all look like shit
some of the proph greens are still the highest selling greens in the game.
also the lvling thing was nice since it was more of you actually becoming better by going on a journy instead of oh i lvled up in a day and am as strong as I will ever be
it was more of I ascend and I feel strong as hell, and then you got your ass kicked by the forgotten.
i also liked that in game unless you were a specific class you really didn't need any elites at all. My ele beat the game and got groups just fine with out any elites, but now adays with elite tomes i have seen some groups where if you dont have this elite by the first mission in the nub island you are a very bad player.

man i miss the old days when there was no such things as builds.

Lady Raenef · Feb 10, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I started in Prophecies shortly before Factions was to be released. I love that campaign more than the others still to date. The enjoyment that campaign brought me isn't even comparable. I loved it, because it was so huge that I felt lost. As the land twisted and turned, every new area felt like a whole new world.

Factions, was like that...sort of. Nightfall, no, it was lame. Sand, sand, sand, more sand. Boring.

roshanabey2 · Feb 10, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazza558

[WARNING, LONG POST!
4. "Good" and "Bad" Grind - What I mean here is that some kinds of what you'd class as grind are good, such as a slower level progression, and some are bad, such as the allegiance titles, introduced in Factions, continued in Nightfall, and completely hammered into you in GW:EN. Both Factions and Nightfall require a small amount of boring grind to continue through the storyline (Factions has FFF, the fed-ex quests giving you small amounts of allegiance faction, and AB - Nightfall has Sunspear points, which, again, have boring quests or repeatedly killing enemies in order for you to progress). GW:EN has no compulsory grind to speak of, but to get your hands on the PvE skills with a rank that makes the skills useable, you need to complete the game and hand in a completed Book. Fair enough, you might say. What if you want skills from another title track? Do a few dungeons. Again, fair enough. In GW:EN, however, the grind is hidden in the form of long, repetitive dungeons packed with slow-to-kill enemies every inch. The primary quests would be fun if the situation wasn't the same above ground. "Good" grind comes in the form of playing through the game and levelling up/gaining a title WITHOUT thinking "Phew, only 154 enemies to kill and I have the title/level up" or "Once I complete this quest...blah blah". A player should NEVER be thinking this. They should be enjoying the quest right now. With prophecies, the fact that you were "nearly level 6" in presearing really never came into your mind as you carry a beehive over a bridge, explore an eerie and beautiful Catacombs (with, guess what, less enemies!), or exploring beyond the wall with a friend. As you slowly progressed past post-searing and into the northern shiverpeaks, you knew you were now level 12 and were pleased about it, but you were much more eager to find out what would happen next, or, even if replaying from the beginning, you might notice something that you didn't notice the first time.

___

Anyway, if you made it this far, thanks for reading!

So legendary defender of ascalon isn't grind then?
Think pls

Nemo the Capitalist · Feb 10, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

guildwiki is a favorite cookie of mine

Malice Black · Feb 10, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Pre-planning every skill/build before entering a mission/zone is highly boring if you ask me.

Horus · Feb 10, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Proph is the best campaign if you play it trough storyline(do quests and missions n order, not to get a runner till desert, then missions runner etc. or even worst, after pre a runner to droks). Factions just gives you a chance to get a lvl20 character very fast, and to finnish it in less than one day. also its lame that you need to farm kurz AND lux points if you want to finnish ALL missions in game, which is hard as you can only play ab for one allegiace(and hen to get guest nvite in other allegiance guild.). NF came and just killed groupig at missions, mainy the 1st thing i can think of when i hear NF. also those SS and LB grinding is lame.

proph- great storyline/exploring/questing/etc.
fact/NF- grind/cool end game missions/lame storylines
if you combine everything together, yu get great game^^with everything included

zwei2stein · Feb 10, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshanabey2

So legendary defender of ascalon isn't grind then?
Think pls

Because everyone needs to be legendary defender, right? Becuase prohecies was deisgned with legendary defender being main goal, right? Hell, it was not even in game since beginig, it was added what ... year, year and half after release.

He is talking Grind that is not really grind at all ... aka, enjoying game. Versus compulsory "farm 10k points or you cant progress storyline."

Nevin · Feb 10, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

I disagree, the only thing that made Prophecies good was being a noob. If Nightfall or Factions was the first chapter of GW I played, I'd be biased that they were better.

Hyper Cutter · Feb 10, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0mar

The factions grind was the worst; there's no need to make the amount such a ludicrously high number (10,000!). It's a chore getting 10k faction for both sides on a new character. Factions turned me off to this game for almost a year. It was seriously that bad.

Just doing the available quests gets you to 9000-some Kurzick faction and something like 7000 Luxon faction (for reasons I don't really understand, a lot of Luxon quests are post-Hatchery)...

Also, the way Prophecies handled your last 30 attribute points was ridiculous.

AuraofMana · Feb 10, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

To me, Prophecies was undeniably the WORST chapter ever. It was slow-paced in both gameplay, storyline development, and character development. Not only that, but a lot of the missions and quests were of pure boredom. Let's not include the lame cheesy storyline.
Yes, the world was bigger, but who cares? It only took longer to finish the boring gameplay and storyline. If you are going to tell me how amazing the environment looked, then I clearly missed it because I was trying to not fall asleep from the long and boring missions, especially the ones in the Jungles.

Quote:

1. No Wiki

That's great to some extend, but that's it. Some missions are long and boring that it is worth more trouble to do it for the sake of storyline (which sucked and didn't make sense).

Quote:

2. No Repetition

Are you kidding me? The missions were poorly designed and clearly did not require any semblance of intelligence to finish. Most of the game you are spent traveling from town to town, and that was VERY REPETITIVE. Some people might enjoy this but I clearly did not. The enemies on the way were easy, they were just annoying and took too much of the time. GW was trying to pull off the combat-oriented theme, and it clearly backfired, since the combat was not challenging and was more of a nuisance.

Quote:

3. Open-ended and vast explorables

No, it did not give me the urge to explore. Every corner looked the same. Sure, there were some good sites here and there, but the rest were just so-so. Plus, the monsters were annoying at the very best, why would I want to waste time fighting more?

Quote:

4. Storyline

Epic storyline? That storyline can't get any cheesier. Plus the fact that it is melodramatic and didn't feel like you were even part of it. And the vizier? Who made the script? Even an idiot could tell he was evil, if not already guessed he is the lich. And the prince, who actually cared? He was so annoying the entire game it felt satisfying to kill him in the end. The lore in Prophecies sucked. I still don't know anything beyond the name for Ascalon.

Quote:

4. "Good" and "Bad" Grind

Quote:

What I mean here is that some kinds of what you'd class as grind are good, such as a slower level progression, and some are bad, such as the allegiance titles, introduced in Factions, continued in Nightfall, and completely hammered into you in GW:EN.

Both are clearly bad. Who wants to spend 20 million hours to grind to the next level? And remember, high level cap =/= slow level progression. D2 clearly had high level cap and it was easy to reach level 85+ in a day.

Quote:

A player should NEVER be thinking this. They should be enjoying the quest right now.

All the quests in Prophecies sucked. Honestly, Presearing as a whole was much more fun than the entire Post-searing. People get to enjoy a little bit of Presearing and then get thrown into the retarded melodramatic Post-searing.

Quote:

With prophecies, the fact that you were "nearly level 6" in presearing really never came into your mind

Actually, I did. I was thinking that I am a little less than 1/3 the max level ALREADY (oh boy, was I wrong, it takes you forever to hit level 20 in Prophecies without grinding) and the fact that my character still can't one shot kill things that are at least same level as me worried me. Oh no I was right.

Quote:

but you were much more eager to find out what would happen next

So I can finish the storyline and put GW on the shelf because it was so boring. I never ended up finishing Prophecies before I just quit and played something else. I only came back because Factions came out and THAT was clearly much more interesting.

Quote:

even if replaying from the beginning, you might notice something that you didn't notice the first time

Every time I play Prophecies and try to enjoy it I end up going to Factions to kick some serious Shiro-ass because I am getting more action doing that than walking around trying to save a melodramatic prince and some "civilians".

In my honest opinion, Prophecies is the worst chapter ever.

AW Lore · Feb 10, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

To me, Prophecies was undeniably the WORST chapter ever. It was slow-paced in both gameplay, storyline development, and character development. Not only that, but a lot of the missions and quests were of pure boredom. Let's not include the lame cheesy storyline.
Yes, the world was bigger, but who cares? It only took longer to finish the boring gameplay and storyline. If you are going to tell me how amazing the environment looked, then I clearly missed it because I was trying to not fall asleep from the long and boring missions, especially the ones in the Jungles.

QTF

i only made two chars in prophecies, warrior and then a monk to help guildies, i tried making an ele and a ranger, but upon reaching desert i was bored out of my mind with the slow leveling, so i deleted them. also i try to spend as little time in prophecies as i kind, i really hate that area, eotn excluded. only my warrior finished prophecies back in the days, and my monk was 3 or 4 missions away, but i was bored of wanting to do the fire ring missions.

when factions came out, i not only did finish it with both my warrior and monk, but also elementalist, ranger, necro, mesmer (new found love) and asassin, i didnt finish it with a ritualist, because honestly, i didnt knew how to play that class then (and still dont know now), back then, only my rit didnt finish factions, and she was lvl 18.

when NF came out, i made the paragon and dervish, and finished with all 10 classes, yes including the ritualist, made a half assed build for her that worked decently well.

the only char that i have taken back to prophecies and finished it, other than my warrior, was my mesmer, and that was only to get the honor monument mention of it, and i skipped half of it.

my other chars, they only have LA for the festival quests and stuff, they have not set a foot far from LA (only for quests, and if they require to go anywhere far from la, abandon quest) they have not and they will NEVER do a mission in tyria, even though i could make over 20k per character just for doing it all, ill never do prophecies with any other char (other than to get the HM title for my mesmer only)

for me, Factions>eotn>NF>bonus mission pack>__________________> prophecies

Thorondor Port · Feb 10, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I dont fully agree with your platforms but..

Prophecies to me was the most exciting to start out of any other game:

Brand new game
No one had money
Tons of ppl played in a smaller world than now
Everyone used pugs (as frustrating as it was at times)

I thought it was great.

IlikeGW · Feb 10, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Mainly because they pushed out sequels to a game made in several years, in less than half the time probably for each. Basically, sequelitus. When you make a bunch of sequels to a game on the same engine in succession, it's a given that the sequels are going to feel like weak remixes.

Windf0rce · Feb 10, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

To me, Prophecies was undeniably the WORST chapter ever. It was slow-paced in both gameplay, storyline development, and character development. Not only that, but a lot of the missions and quests were of pure boredom. Let's not include the lame cheesy storyline.
Yes, the world was bigger, but who cares? It only took longer to finish the boring gameplay and storyline. If you are going to tell me how amazing the environment looked, then I clearly missed it because I was trying to not fall asleep from the long and boring missions, especially the ones in the Jungles.

I agree. Prophecies is very boring, specially thanks to its huge length and missions; they take just too much time and not much of it is spent actually fighting, mostly running around with some annoying bundle.

I liked Factions the most due to the lots of killing and high number of monsters. Though I have to admit the campaign feels a bit 'rushed'. Could use some extra lenght (though still not as much as Prophecies) and cinematics.

Nightfall has the perfect length, unfortunately the whole continent looks the same. Every location is brown and full of sand, most places lack identity.